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KEEPING UP: 115 interviews in the archives
Interview: David Weinberger (Part 2/2)
by Nettie Hartsock, February 2001
Interview Navigator:
[Part 1] [Part 2]

Part 2: "Stop pretending and talk without fear

Tell us why it's a good thing that the Web is always going to be "a little broken" as Berners-Lee has said?
Because every large structure is. And every human being is. We're fallible, wee creatures and what we build is always at least a little bit broken. Recognizing and accepting that fallibility is liberating. Yet most companies insist on being "anal-perfective," pretending that everything they do is perfect.

Can "traditional" companies stop pretending and become fearless enough to have "real" conversations with their employees and their customers? Do you think the change will be embraced by the companies ultimately when the bottom line is at stake?
Yes and yes. The fact is that businesses are made of people, and people are much more complex than org charts. Without its "social networks," a business literally can't move, much less succeed. And you're right to put this in terms of fear. So much of the structure of business is built around fear of employees and fear of customers.

Will universal broadband contribute further to the demand for "real" conversation?
We already have "real" conversations every day on the Web, unless by "real" you mean "face-to-face." I've made friends and kept in touch with old friends by email. Those conversations are real. Some people will prefer to use video or voice instead of email, but email will continue to be an important new way people talk with one another. Email is here to stay.

What is the role of a CEO or CIO in a hyperlinked organization?
To help the company be smart. Companies are smart not because they have lots of data or lots of smart individuals but because they have smart conversations happening all over the place, crossing all the organizational boundaries, including with customers.

In three years time, where in your opinion are companies going to be if they continue to stay in a state of denial about the power of the Internet and the need for "conversations".
If they continue to view the Web as a very slow broadcast medium, they will at best be ignored, and at worst treated with the contempt they're showing to their customers.

Does the book have a large following of established CEO's who are embracing its ideas?
Lots of senior managers, including CEOs of Fortune 100 companies, have read the book, had one or more of the authors in to talk, given out copies of the book to their teams, and so forth. But the book very purposefully stays away from giving lists of things to do or programs that can be "embraced" and that will "work" for a company.

The book says: This is the most exciting and promising time any of us have lived through. Stop reading business books and go out and invent!

Thanks for the conversation, David!

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About this week's
interviewee:
David Weinberger publishes an influential Web newsletter (JOHO: The Journal of the Hyperlinked Organization) and is a technology commentator for National Public Radio's All Things Considered. He writes frequently for Wired, Knowledge Management World, Intranet Design Magazine, and others. He is also the co-author of The Cluetrain Manifesto.
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